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samedi 19 septembre 2009

Road To The Kingdom Of Saguenay / Vers le Royaume du Saguenay

Road To The Kingdom Of Saguenay

Tell me which version you prefer and why - colour or black and white? They were obviously post-processed differently and the atmosphere is quite different. A matter of taste?

The expression "Kingdom of Saguenay" (Royaume du Saguenay) has probably been invented by Algonquins or one of their Chiefs while dealing with the French. Wikipedia gives rather contradictory versions whether you read it in English or in French.

Roger Gauthier, The Photographer Who Came From The Cold

UPDATE: I've just added a third picture which is in fact the second one but inverted, following comments by several of you. A good idea indeed. I had in fact asked myself, will I do it or not? And decided not to because I thought that the original version added an element of tension, of uneasiness that in fact added drama. Perhaps this is because I'm a leftie, I don't know... :-)

Now, looking at both, I really don't know. They sure are different. Which one is best? I leave it to you. Once published, they have a life of their own...

RogerG

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Vers le Royaume du Saguenay

Dites-moi quelle version vous préférez - colour ou noir et blanc ? Elles ont de toute évidence subi un post-traitement très différent, ce qui donne une atmosphère différente. Affaire de goût ?

L'expression « Royaume du Saguenay » a probablement été inventée par les Algonquins ou un de leurs Chefs lors d'échanges commerciaux avec les Français. Wikipédia donne des versions plutôt contradictoires de l'origine de l'expression, selon que vous le lisez en anglais ou en français.

Roger Gaurthier, le photographe venu du froid

MISE À JOUR : Je viens d'ajouter une troisième photo qui est en fait la deuxième mais inversée, suite à la suggestion de plusieurs d'entre vous. Bonne idée. J'y avais en effet pensé mais avais décidé de la laisser telle quelle : il me semblait que la version originale ajoutait un élément de tension, d'inquiétude qui en fait ajoutait au drame. C'est peut-être parce que je suis gaucher, je ne sais pas... :-)


Quoi qu'il en soit, en regardant les deux maintenant, je ne sais vraiment plus. Les deux versions sont sûrement très différentes. Laquelle est la meilleure ? À vous de vous prononcer. Une fois publiées, elles ont une vie propre...

RogerG


Road ToThe Kingdom Of Saguenay / Vers le Royaume du Saguenay



Road ToThe Kingdom Of Saguenay - Black&White / Vers le Royaume du Saguenay - noir et blanc



Inverted Picture / Photo inversée



28 commentaires:

  1. B&W version seem to have that shiny "soft focus" effect that I personally like very much. The sky is simply dramatic and the line of the road invites me to explore. Very contrasty, the B&W seems to loose some detail in shadow areas, at the trees stripped of leaves. I have observed the lost of the details just because I also saw the color version. Still, the lost of the details is pleasant: it underlines the line of the road and the beautiful sky.

    On the other side, color version strike in a different manner. The colors are not vivid, but pretty pastel, in tone with the coming autumn. Very high dynamic range, lots of details. Though, it seems to me that the feeling is weaker.

    Therefore I personally like the B&W version.

    Also, another matter of personally taste. Our eyes read from left to right. So, in those cases, the line of the road is read as descending. By simply flipping the photos horizontally the line of the road will be with lower part to the left and with the upper part to the right. So, our eyes will ascend following the road.

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  2. Voilà une route que j'emprunterai bien en moto !
    les 2 sont belles
    celle en noir et blanc a un côté un peu angoissant je trouve néanmoins

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  3. Je préfére la version noir celle du bas est splendide. Merci pour flo il passe chez toi bisou
    Phil tu es là auusi alors bonjour

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  4. to me, they are both beautiful in their own ways - the color reflects a soft sensual reality which i like very much - the colors are reflective of an enchanting autumn day -

    however, with this image, my favorite is the black and white - it reveals a sense of ethereal "unreality" which is magical to me - i prefer the softened boundaries of the landscape that the bw brings - and the wonderful contrast makes the finishing dramatic touch - all very powerful -

    also, marius makes a very very good point, i think, in his comment about a reverse composition with the winding road beginning in the left corner - i would absolutely love to see the bw image reflected in that way - hmmmm....delicious, i think!

    beautiful images, both of them -

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  5. First of all, thank you for stopping by and very happy to find your blog.
    Strong preference for the B&W version of this one.. here it's all about the light in the sky and on the road and the simple, graphic shapes to me. The color and the detail seem unnecessary.
    Nice work.

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  6. Je préfère de loin la première pour la chaleur de ses couleurs. On se croirait dans un autre monde ou en direction vers un autre monde ! Byebye !

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  7. They are both very nice, but the b&w is more moody. I have a preference for moody. :-)

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  8. Thanks guys for these comments that are in fact critiques, which is exactly what I am looking for - if you're in the mood to do it. Thanks to all of you, but I must say special thanks for Marius' wonderful analysis as well as Jenean's. Phil, you're right, this is exactly what it was meant to...

    Now Mark's analysis (hello Mark for a first visit here!) is also right on the mark (no pun intended!), as well as The Photophile's: yes the black and white is quite moody.

    About reversing the picture, I included a third picture in the post - the reversed version - and also a few words why I did not reverse it at first. Now have your say, it's up to you!

    BTW, I killed details in the black and white quite on purpose, as you have no doubt thought.

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    Merci à vous tous pour ces commentaires qui sont en fait des critiques, ce qui est exactement ce que je recherche - si ça vous tente de le faire bien sûr. Merci à tous donc, mais un merci spécial à Marius pour son analyse poussée, ainsi qu'à Jenean. Phil, tu as raison, la version noir et blanc a ce côté angoissant.

    L'analyse de Mark est aussi très à propos (salut Mark pour une première visite ici !), comme celle de The Photophile: en effet, la version noir et blanc est plutôt mélancolique.

    Maintenant, de gauche à droite, ou de droite à gauche ? Je viens d'inclure une troisième version dans le message - la version inversée - ainsi que quelques mots disant pourquoi je ne l'avais pas fait au départ. Maintenant c'est à vous, dites ce que vous pensez !

    En passant, J'ai fait disparaître les détails dans la version noir et blanc volontairement, comme vous l'avez sans doute deviné.

    Roger Gauthier

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  9. Anything going from left towards right tends to be more powerful, not sure why...

    That said, I prefer the original version, just more genuine maybe? Probably wouldn't make any difference to me if I didn't know it was flipped however. The mind is a strange thing.

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  10. hmmmm...my own "preference" is the 2nd b/w - with one minor exception - and perhaps that exception comes about only as a result of my having just now come indoors from the bright sun for several hours, BUT my eyes perceive a slightly different contrast in the reverse image - for example, my eyes see a bit more detail in the landscape and a bit less darkness in the largest cloud - even the road stripe seems a tad brighter - but, again, this is most likely my own visual thing at the moment and a thousand pardons in that case -

    but - in terms of the photos i LOVE the dark moody mystical composition - i simply prefer the left to right curvature -

    and you know, i can see the b/w in a really large size - very dramatic and powerful!

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  11. Hi Jenean,

    I personally don't know which one I prefer anymore... This being said, the two b&w are strictly identical except that the second one is flipped. You can have a look at the two Levels curves, they're identical... But I see what you mean. Strange, the mind is playing some tricks on us!

    As far as printing is concerned, I do my own printing right here on an Epson Stylus Pro 3800. It should make a fine 16x24 in print. Larger than that, I've to rely on my local printing house here, they should be able to make a nice 24x36 in out of it as the original is very high res. :-)

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    Bonjour Jenean,

    Je ne sais plus laquelle je préfère... Toutefois, les deux noir et blanc sont absolument identiques sauf que la deuxième est renversée. tu peux jeter un coup d'oeil aux deux courbes de niveaux, elles sont identiques... Mais je vois ce que tu veux dire. C'est fou ce que l'esprit peut nous jouer des tours !

    Pour l'impression, j'imprime moi-même sur mon Epson Stylus Pro 3800. Ça devrait me permettre de réaliser un bon tirage 16x24 po. Mon imprimeur local pourrait sans doute faire un excellent 24x36 po, l'original étant de très haute définition.

    Roger Gauthier :-)

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  12. hello again roger - well, it is nighttime now and the world out my window is darkened - which means also that the bright rays of sun beaming through the window beside my monitor have left - and i am no longer seeing red dots from having been out in the sun - so - all that said - i "see" what you mean - still prefer the lines of the 2nd printing but find them both very compelling! lovely work!

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  13. Hola,here is the one not so opinionated opinion or impression if you allow me.Somehow the flipped one does not feel right,if I may say so as a painter,it is out of balance and if you want to do that with purpose than its your choice and about that no arguments.Original Wite and Black is not to compare with the colored one in terms of better or worst,it is like you whish to compare Rimbaud and Whitman,there is no better or worst in it,just different.A matter of feeling ,taste or the purpose :O)

    How Im doing so far? :O) Greetings from the new (becoming older) kid,Aleksandra

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  14. Hey Aleksandra, you doin' fine!

    You're right of course, but I think that if we forget for a second about colour or black and white, the idea of starting from the bottom left towards the upper right still stands. Well, I mean, it's the way things are usually done... in Occidental countries.

    Because of the way we read, and perhaps other things, starting from the bottom right towards the upper left is less often seen.

    IMHO, it yields a totally different result - which is your point in fact. And this different result, I think, has more "tension" in it, it asks a bit more from the viewer. And this was also what I wanted to do at the beginning.

    What I say still stands - painting or photography, or a mix - approaches could very well be the same.

    If one thinks for a second about what Picasso did, and others, presenting a picture with lines in the "wrong direction" is absolutely nothing, don't you think?

    And now, how I am doing? :-)

    Roger G.

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    Allô Aleksandra, excellent !

    Tu as raison bien sûr, mais je pense qu'en dehors de la couleur et du noir et blanc, l'idée de démarrer du coin inférieur gauche vers le coin supérieur droit a ses mérites. Enfin, je veux dire, c'est ce qu'on fait d'habitude... dans les pays occidentaux.

    À cause de la façon dont nous lisons, et peut-être d'autres raisons aussi, partir du coin inférieur droit se voit moins souvent.

    En fait, cela donne un résultat tout à fait différent - ce qui est ton argument en fait. Et il y a une "tension" plus grande dans cette façon de faire, celui qui regarde doit fait un effort plus grand. C'est ce que je voulais faire au départ.

    Mon point de vue tient toujours - peinture ou photographie, ou un mélange - les approches pourraient bien être les mêmes !

    En regardant ce que Picasso a fait, et bien d'autres, une image avec les lignes de force dans la "mauvaise" direction n'est rien du tout, non ?

    Et maintenant, comment est-ce que JE me débrouille ? :-)

    Roger G.

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  15. Hello Roger Gauthier.
    The first photo is the one i liked most, it´s the more colorfull, and the one i appreciated the lines in the horizon, are great, the photos in black and white are also good, they give us an more instante aspect of the real thing.
    Thank´s for your comments in my blog, and i´ve find your blog very interesting, it´s a pleasure to navigate here, great pictures, with much information, to learn.
    All the best, have a nice day, see you soon.

    José Filipe 21-09-2009

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  16. Bonjour
    tu vas bien? Tu sais j'aime le noir et pour les photos tout dépend je 'embrasse je dois faire les joints de la cuisine bisou

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  17. Bonjour France ! J'oublie toujours que s'il n'est pas 06h ici, il est presque midi chez vous ! Alors bonne bouffe et bonne journée... :-)

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    Hello France,

    I keep forgetting that you've got a six hour lead on us, so it's almost noon where you are ! So have a good lunch and a good day!

    Roger G. :-)))

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  18. A word for José: You may say that you are an amateur, but you seem to do things like a pro! Thanks for the kind words and all the best,

    Roger G.

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    Un mot pour José : Tu peux dire que tu es un amateur, mais tu sembles faire les choses comme un professionnel ! Merci pour ton mot gentil, et à la prochaine,

    Roger G.

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  19. Let me get to know you better,if you have a good sence for humor,! than I,ll comeback and give it to you strait,ghnahahahaha!This way of interacting with clever people, not being able to hear your voices and see your body language and watch your colors change about such a interesting points of veuw of a great subjects, it is allmost impossible for me,making me very tired of thinking or guessing the exact meaning of your words(Im a bit autistic too,not only "crazy"),and as I mentioned in my answer to you on my site,I find my English veeeerrry poor to feel enough confidance writing it in the open like this,if you use language speaking it or singing it, that is much better for those not so well outspoken(Or something like that..)as I am!
    I would love to stand in a front of this juwels you made,together with all of you,looking and listening at them,with ease and all the time in the world at what we are talking about,ya,that would be nice.This virtual way is quite challenging(not to use a word problematic if you are not in possesion of good,stable working PC)so this has everything to do with your simpel question,which one do we prefer,colored one,white and black one or the flipped one!I would love to be able to give you one answer using as little words as possible and that is not happening wright now.
    I can only say I will do my best and if you ask me of an analysing opinion is it the object that you want to get analysed or your opinion?
    Personaly I prefer not to analyse someones work ferder than a techniek or material used even if its only a sketch and this because I believe in comunicational essence of all things,including things made by humans.Thats what art or anything expressional is for me,way of talking to eachother or to yourself!!And I believe in a freedom of speaking in whatever way that should be,so I do not pretend knowing it all that good to go trashing it or overanalysing it for the sake of what??Does this all make any sence to you? Hope so!
    You see,it is becoming a saga and still it is questonable, in my opinion, how could you be helped by any of this writing?
    Thats why I will shut up and go now to paint or make some momentary notification of light in time with my little camcorder,cause thats something I can do.
    A good day to you,greetings and
    see ya.
    Aleksandra
    My word verification is holumism..:O)

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  20. Hey Aleksandra, you're fun! Now a couple of points:

    - English is a second language for both of us so don't worry about that. :-)

    - It's really difficult to offend me... I can take a lot, I can take it both barrels when one does not like a picture or image or whatever. I like to give it back the same way though, but I rarely do so.

    - People that know me would agree that I am rather funny, like a good laugh, a good beer, a good wine... Poetry and good music (classical or not) can fill me with sadness.

    - I do my best creations in the middle of the night with music filling the place.

    - It can take me days to produce a single "photograph". Am I simply slow, or feeble-minded, or what?

    So have your say exactly as you want. This Blog exists precisely for that, and I welcome you warmly.

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    Salut Aleksandra, t'es amusante ! Quelques précisions maintenant :

    - L'anglais est une langue seconde pour nous deux, pas de problème ici. :-)

    - Il est difficile de me faire fâcher... Je peux en prendre pas mal et accepter une opinion négative sans broncher. J'aime bien réagir sans détour aussi, quoique je le fasse rarement.

    - Ceux qui me connaissent admettraient que je suis du genre drôle, que j'aime bien rigoler, boire une bonne bière, un bon vin... La poésie et la musique peuvent me remplir de tristesse.

    - Je crée le mieux au milieu de la nuit, avec de la musique qui remplit la place.

    - Ça peut me prendre des jours pour terminer une seule « photo ». Suis-je lent, ou faible d'esprit, ou quoi ?

    Tu peux donc dire exactement ce que tu penses. Ce Blogue existe précisément pour ça, il me fera toujours plaisir d'avoir de tes nouvelles.

    Roger Gauthier :-)))

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  21. Salut Roger G.Im glad that you find my humble persona interesting and amusing.
    Darn,what is feeble-minded? You see,now my oldfashioned self is taking a antique piece of a English dictionary and surching,and surching.......ha! here it is: Feeble-mindedness can go 2 ways,being not tidY in your mind(thats me) or not being blessed with a clear brain,which one is it?? :O)Is that your biggest fear,becoming feeble?:O)
    I did not mean to make you sad with my choice of poetry and music on my blog (or I did? :O))
    I find sad olso beautiful equal to joyesh,chirio stuf,you know,stuff for and from happy people.If it was not for sadness I would not be a poet or a painter.Thank you for this fine place of yours alowing people to come and contemplate and share,it is great feeling to be among you.OK now Im gone,see you around,Aleksandra!
    PS and if I shout to your face "provocateur"it is not to offend you but the oposite,it is a compliment.Ciao

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  22. bonjour mon ami ca va ?
    J'arrive par cette route sur ton blog te souhaiter une belle première journée automnale !

    à propos de l'arbre qui a poussé bizarrement (photo sur mon blog)voici l'esplication :

    Marcottage
    Marronnier dont les branches au contact du sol ont marcotté. Le marcottage est une forme de multiplication végétative permettant de multiplier une plante en plaçant une branche encore reliée au pied de la plante mère dans un substrat humide (source Wikipedia).

    Amitiés

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  23. Ah, voilà la raison ! Merci... / Ah, this is why, thanks a lot...

    Roger G.

    For My English-Speaking Readers: Phil refers to a comment I made about a strange tree on his blog.

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  24. Bonjour puis je mettre le lien de ton blog chez moi
    merci je t'embrasse

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  25. petit bonjour rapide je retourne en cours bisou

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  26. @France : Oui bien sûr pour le lien... :-) Bonne journée à toi, ici il pleut des clous...

    @Flo :Merci pour ton mot !

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    @France: Yes sure you can put a link... :-) Have a good day, here it rains...

    @Flo: Thanks for stopping by!

    Roger G.

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  27. What a gift for my day to discover your blog. I prefer the b & w version purely because of personal taste. For me, it encompasses more drama than the color version.

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  28. Strangely, the two B$Ws seem to have different contrast, although the curves show clearly they don`t.


    Roger, good point. Flipping is good, unless you want to leave the photographs as it comes in real life, un-flipped. So, I will not explore the landscape, but landscape will explore me! In original photos, that descending road come to us.


    Aleksandra is absolutely right about differences between color and B&W. We express our taste about it, based on likeness of the image. That does not mean one is better than other, especially at the exactly same composition.

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Peu importe que vous soyez photographe ou non, expert ou non, je serai toujours heureux de lire vos commentaires ! :-)
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I'm always happy to read your comments,whether you are a photographer or not, an expert or not! :-)